Wake Nation Suggestions

[Boddah1994]

Since Pete threw us the idea of inputting suggestions for Wake Nation, I thought it'd be nice to have a centralized topic on the subject.

-I think it would be a great idea to have regular clinics for all skill levels. I don't think it's necessary to have Tom Foshee flown in to do this since Wake Nation employs some of the finest staff in the business. For example, I think having a Saturday morning clinic with maybe Clayton or Ryan (or whoever) entitled "How to load the line" would be a great way to help Wake Nation's riders improve their skills. A different skill could be taught at each clinic, from the simple to the extreme. I think this would be a great opportunity to promote the riders' option of having private lessons in the future as well. You could charge for the clinic or just charge cable time. Wouldn't really matter.

-You'll have to bear with me on this one since we still have an element of unknown in the near future. I think that a consideration should be made for a middle tier of difficulty for the obstacles. This is coming from the perspective of someone with a very low-end-of-moderate skill level in riding. With the obstacles last year, I was able to do the low end of the transitional and the fun box, as well as being able to edge some of the big kicker. I know it's hard to imagine some of this for a lot of you skilled riders, but things such as the dragon, Scion rail and both kickers more more or less out of the question for someone at my level. I more or less hit a glass ceiling at that point. I think that a few confidence building obstacles presenting a slightly larger challenge would be something that would really help in the transition from beginning to skilled rider. I'm thinking that something like the Scion rail that sits deeper into the water would be nice. I also think that something that could be a lot of fun for people of all skill levels would be a kicker that only stands a foot to a foot and a half out of the water.

Just my two cents.

Ryan

[Mali_u]

I'm still holding out for a once a week pass similar to Perfect North's offerings. It's hard to justify $525 when I'm not sure I'll physically be able to go that often. Maybe I just haven't experienced Wake Nation enough yet to make time to go. For example, I purchased the once a week for Perfect North this year and after one time, realized it wasn't enough and upgraded to the full pass. Hopefully that will be the case here, and just need a push in the right direction. Any plans to offer this option??

Thanks,
Ryan

[T-Bird]

That is a pretty good suggestion for the weekly clinics. I know that everyone that goes to wake nation wants to learn to load the line.

For the added smaller obstacles, I don't think that is such a great idea. OWC has a 1 foot tall kicker and it is way too small. It is very similar to driving over a speed bump in a car. It is not any fun once you go over it once. It really is not much harder to hit the kickers that they have now compared to a smaller kicker. The trick is to soak up the lip so that it doesn’t kick you high in the air. Then once you land just riding over it, you can start taking a cut at it. With a small box you can't do anything else on it.

I think that there is a good mix of hits for beginners and advanced riders. You are saying that you are only getting in a few hits each time around, but that is the same for an advanced rider too. If you are going to hit the transfer box, you can not hit any other slider on the front section of the lake. If you take a good cut into the kickers, you land with no time to set up for the sliders. So it is pretty even.

[Wake Nation]

Thanks for all the suugestions. You bring up a good point regarding the weekly pass. nick and I will look at bringing something like that on.

Regarding the obstacles, we are building a bunch of new ones for beginners and advanced riders. I hear what u are saying about hitting a glass ceiling. The key to advancing with obstacles is to just go for it. You really just have to hit it a bunch of times
to get comfortable. Anyothet suggestion would be to ride double with one of our employees or take a lesson. You can watch how them hit the obstacles up close and get pointers on the lake. When I want to try something new, I grab one of our employees and ride double. It's the fastest way to learn.

Hope this helps. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[T-Bird]

Most of the summer they wouldn't let many people ride double. Part of the time they said that they weren't allowed or they said that they had to run a special handle with 2 ropes coming off one ball. Are we going to be able to ride doubles openly this summer?

[TduB]

I would tend to agree with T-bird on this one, I think you had a good mix of features for all levels of riders. I think the confidence has to come from you, and not the features. Also, if you can hit the scion, you can hit the dragon (dragon might be a little thinner, but once you’ve greased the scion the dragon should be no harder). But it sounds like they’ll be a lot of new features, so we’ll see what ya cook up this year (PLEASE KEEP THE TRANSFER BOX!!!) To Pete’s point, a lesson would be a great way to build confidence to hit new features, or do new things on features, or do what you normally do on features switch, whatever.

As far as my two cents for new features, transfers, transfers, transfers. Transfers over land, transfers over pools, transfers over other rails, straight jumps onto rails (like the rainbow in the xgames slopestyle this year). Another fun thing would be something like the hitching post they had in the xgames... again. Could be a multiple hitching posts, a series of things to ollie over, or have jumps before so you can jump over. Would be crazy fun for wakeskating too (cheap to build, and wouldn’t take up that much space… safe though…?...)

Also can’t believe there wasn’t a (organized) party on the island this year. It would be HUGEEEEE. Only substantial island I know of in 600 miles… Pirate theme?

[gjacko77]

I agree with everyone on the comments of the intermediate features. I think that there is a great variety already of intermediate features. The key is just hitting features like everyone else said. At the begining of last year i could barley make it off the dock. After ridding all year i could hit every feature with spins on or off. It for sure just practice.

The Island party thing would be awesome.

[TduB]

Pete,
Another idea, I know your probably always looking for ways to generate cashflow in the winter, so how about a polar bear plunge in early march, with shop sale (if you have any last year’s gear) and season passes on sale? I’m dying to ride.

You’d make a fortune in wetsuit rentals alone.

ICEBERG GRIND!!!!

[T-Bird]

A great thing for a the locals is that you switch up the slider layout every once in a while. To the locals that ride Wake Nation every week, its like riding a whole new park when moving around the sliders. It is not so important to the out of towners but they still get excited when they hear its a new layout.

And make sure you have plenty of heater tops for sale in the spring and fall. By heater top I mean a long sleeve shirt thats the thickness of a wetsuit. Not just the thin little rash guards.

[swilson]

I love the weekly clinics idea. I could learn a lot from WN's staff. They are great riders!

The obstacles I agree with the others on this one, beginning of the year i never stepped foot on a wakeboard, end of the year, people kept pushing me to hit stuff and i hit the funbox, the cheese wedge, and the scion rail, doin some 180's. oh i even hit the wall ride, literally as well. :) but yes, it's all just a mind game, and looks more deceiving than it really is. Changing it up is good too. I'd be hitting the dragon if it was on the right side of the lake again. I just couldn't muster it on my left :)


I also like the march ride as I'm dying to get back out on the lake.

Also Pete, I know your going to open May 1st officially, any chance of opening during (some of the) weekends in April? I think that would be good at the end of the season too, much like perfect north does. just weekends til people stop coming or you finally kick me out of the building. :)

[Boddah1994]

I like the idea of opening on the weekends earlier. Just sayin'. :)

[T-Bird]

I like that idea too. I know the employees might not like it, but its nice to get out before the wind (and lines) pick up.

[TduB]

one word for pete:
cashflow
one word for us:
RIDE
mutually beneficial transaction. the glory of a freemarket system. given any thought to the idea of opening early?

[T-Bird]

The only thing limiting the park in the summer is the day light hours. It is warm enough to ride at night, so is there any thought about lighting up the park?

Was the water a lot warmer in the summer than you guys thought it would be? I was really suprised how hot the water got. It pays off to be shallow, because OWC's water doesn't get that warm in the summer.

[The Biz]

I couldn't agree more with the night riding, but at what expense? To purchase all the lights necessary to run the park during the night, and have to follow Joyce Park regulations and turn the lights off at 11 or 11:30? Seems like a lot of money for an additional 2 or 3 hours (depending on season)

If this were to happen, prices would certainly increase for an all day pass.

Maybe a late night pass option would supplement the cost?

It would bring a whole new market during the week (i.e. guys like me that work till 6 or 7pm, but would love to still ride during the week).


I am a huge fan of the idea, but would it be profitable is the question Pete needs to ask himself.

[tombergman]

i would definately ride at night if tha were an option.
i get off work around 7 or 8 weekdays, and if wakenation would be open til 10 or 11 id be out there til close

[zoolew]

if you think about it having the park open till 10-11 would make more people buy all day passes. atleast i would think so. that would make up for some to most of the cost. as my my suggestions all i can say is MAKE A CHEAPER PASS! i would definatley get a week day pass because im down at my lake every weekend during the summer. i also like the idea of a once a week pass. whatever works for you guys its just i dont ride enough for an unlimited pass and too much to buy a 2-4 hour pass every time i go out.

[Zalvis]

The only thing bad about riding at night with a bunch of lights is the fact that you would be swallowing pounds of bugs.

[Boddah1994]

if you think about it having the park open till 10-11 would make more people buy all day passes. atleast i would think so. that would make up for some to most of the cost. as my my suggestions all i can say is MAKE A CHEAPER PASS! i would definatley get a week day pass because im down at my lake every weekend during the summer. i also like the idea of a once a week pass. whatever works for you guys its just i dont ride enough for an unlimited pass and too much to buy a 2-4 hour pass every time i go out.

I agree that there should be more than one tier in the season passes. A weekday only or once a week pass would be ideal. I think that this would encourage more season pass sales and wouldn't necessarily cannibalize the full season pass. If you look at a place like Kings Island, about two and a half visits would pay off the pass so it's almost hard to justify not getting a season pass. I'm not saying that the full season pass should be cheaper, but I think they should offer options for people who have trouble justifying $525 when they're only riding once a week or so.

If you do the math, it takes 15 visits to break even with the season pass assuming you would normally purchase an all day pass on all 15 days. Additionally, if you assumed that you'd buy a 4 hours pass it would take 17.5 visits to break even. That's a lot of riding.

I do, however, think that the $525 price is reasonable for the all access season pass. Regardless of what's offered, that's what I'll be purchasing. I'm a big fan of having flexibility, so being able to go every day if I want to is important to me. I also think that the product offered is well worth the cost associated.

I'll see you guys in just a few weeks out at the cable!!!

[The Biz]

I agree that there should be more than one tier in the season passes. A weekday only or once a week pass would be ideal. I think that this would encourage more season pass sales and wouldn't necessarily cannibalize the full season pass. If you look at a place like Kings Island, about two and a half visits would pay off the pass so it's almost hard to justify not getting a season pass. I'm not saying that the full season pass should be cheaper, but I think they should offer options for people who have trouble justifying $525 when they're only riding once a week or so.

If you do the math, it takes 15 visits to break even with the season pass assuming you would normally purchase an all day pass on all 15 days. Additionally, if you assumed that you'd buy a 4 hours pass it would take 17.5 visits to break even. That's a lot of riding.

I do, however, think that the $525 price is reasonable for the all access season pass. Regardless of what's offered, that's what I'll be purchasing. I'm a big fan of having flexibility, so being able to go every day if I want to is important to me. I also think that the product offered is well worth the cost associated.

I'll see you guys in just a few weeks out at the cable!!!

I would assume that the only reason that this hasn't been done yet is that there is no way of tracking. You would have to have a membership card and Pete would have to have the software to monitor whether or not you have already used your one day a week. Initially it is easy, you have a season pass, or you pay by day.

Again it is a question of whether or not it will be profitable. To keep a database, scanning system, print season passes, etc. There are A LOT of things to consider from the business side of things. It's not very difficult programming, but it would be somewhat costly and time consuming. However, I am an advocate for a one day a week pass as well.

I would much rather have the option to come whenever I want for one day every week and have the payment part consolidated.

[T-Bird]

The software and tracking of a weekly pass would be hard. Maybe an alternative would be to sell a 10% off card. You would be able to use the 10% discount as much as you wanted when you bought a day pass, but you would have to pay a up front cost.

If the season pass pays off at 15 visits, then maybe the 10% off card could pay off after 7 visits is you assume all day passes. If people didn't bring their card, then they would have to pay regular price. The card could have their name on it, so you wouldn't have to worry about people "passing back" discount cards like they were at a night club trying to get in over 21.

There would be no tracking to worry about and it would be the overall same effect as selling a "smaller" season pass.

[zoolew]

The software and tracking of a weekly pass would be hard. Maybe an alternative would be to sell a 10% off card. You would be able to use the 10% discount as much as you wanted when you bought a day pass, but you would have to pay a up front cost.

If the season pass pays off at 15 visits, then maybe the 10% off card could pay off after 7 visits is you assume all day passes. If people didn't bring their card, then they would have to pay regular price. The card could have their name on it, so you wouldn't have to worry about people "passing back" discount cards like they were at a night club trying to get in over 21.

There would be no tracking to worry about and it would be the overall same effect as selling a "smaller" season pass.

this is a good idea, but if you had a "week day only" pass, then there wouldnt have to be any software either. it would just have to say 'week days only' on it and if you came during the weekend then they would make you pay :D. or another option is to make an any day of the week 2, 3, and 4 hour pass. you would just go to the proshop and show them your pass and depending on what length you had on the pass they would give you a wrist band for that amount of time just like if you had bought it normally. there wouldnt have to be any tracking software for that kind of pass either.

Edit: i just went on the wakenation website and it seems that there is no longer a 3 hour pass, but the 2 hour pass cost $25 now. i cant remember how much the 2 hour pass was last year, but i definately dont remember the 4 hour pass being $30. maybe im just crazy, or maye this is a sign of thingzs to come?

[gjacko77]

Yeah i was all about getting a wakenation pass this year but i just can't justify paying that large of a lump sum of money. If there was a one day a week pass i would get that instead no questions asked. Can't justify putting 550 into a pass right now.

Looks like i'll be killing it behind the monarch more often or playing more golf and softball this year.

[Wake Nation]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the posts. Here are some answers to your questions/thoughts.

1. Night riding: We would love to do this but we need to get a special permit in order to have night riding. We might be able to get a couple nights during the summer, but they won't let us stay open late all summer long. We will try to get a few nights this year.

2. We heard from a lot of you and it seems that everyone is looking for a one day a week pass. Therefore... We are offering a one day per week pass this year. It will be more than 1/2 the price of the season pass.

3. We would have liked to have opened in April this year, but since we are in the middle of construction, we felt it best to wait till May 1st this year. But have no fear, in 2010 you will be wakeboarding in April... although probably weekends only.

May 1st is right around the corner. Look forward to see you all there.

Thanks,
Pete

[Wake Nation]

One more thing, if you don't want the season pass or the one day per week pass, you can buy 5 passes and get the 6th for free.

[gjacko77]

Wakenation,

I will be purchasing the once a week pass as long as it is reasonable. Works so much better for how far away i live and my schedule. When a final price is set in stone let me know.

[Wake Nation]

The one day per week pass is $250 for the season. The pass pays for itself after 7 visits.

[gjacko77]

Ballin.... I'm for sure game. So Stoked on this. Thanks Guys..

[The Biz]

The one day per week pass is $250 for the season. The pass pays for itself after 7 visits.

Rock Solid Pete. I'll be up to grab mine when you open up for the year!

[Wake Nation]

Hey guys,

just to clarify, the one day per week season pass is for week day only. That's what most people said they wanted since they hit Norris or where ever on the weekend.

[Wake Nation]

Also, our cable prices are remaining the same this year.

For our "buy 5 get 1 free" deal, would you want those to be 2 hour passes, 4 hour passes or all day passes? We can only do one.

Thanks.

[tnwakeboard]

Well forget that idea.......

We have alot of people come up there about every other weekend. The one day a week pass would be pretty nice for us. I don't understand why that pass has conditions.....isn't the cable price the same on the weekends as it is on weekdays???

Here's a brand new Mercedes, but your key only works Monday through Friday.

Seeing as how the cable can't stay open past dark, doesn't it seem wrong to say when your season pass holders can ride? Alot of us have 8-5's or 9-6's.

I guess if you guys are set in your ways then my vote would be for a full day pass on the buy 5 get one free deal.

[The Biz]

Well forget that idea.......

We have alot of people come up there about every other weekend. The one day a week pass would be pretty nice for us. I don't understand why that pass has conditions.....isn't the cable price the same on the weekends as it is on weekdays???

Here's a brand new Mercedes, but your key only works Monday through Friday.

Seeing as how the cable can't stay open past dark, doesn't it seem wrong to say when your season pass holders can ride? Alot of us have 8-5's or 9-6's.

I guess if you guys are set in your ways then my vote would be for a full day pass on the buy 5 get one free deal.

I second this. I was under the impression that the one day a week meant exactly that. One day of the week, not one day between Monday and Friday.

[T-Bird]

Nick said earlier that it was going to be for the people that head south and ride boat during the weekends.

[tnwakeboard]

Right but what about those of us that head north for the weekend because Norris is infested with "out of towners" and there is no cable?

Shouldn't we get some sort of deal too?

Don't get me wrong guys, I love that place and I'll be there this summer either way. I'm just playing devil's advocate while trying to maximize the amount of days I get to spend up there.

Though, it sounds to me like the locals are getting pampered pretty heavily. Pretty cool....If you're a local.

Oh yeah, forgot to tell you guys that we are charging for Norris Lake use this summer. It's $200/weekend but there is a season pass (good weekday's only) for TN locals that don't use the lake on the weekend. Sorry all you lake-goers with 8-5's from Ohio!

Then again, who am I to say who Wake Nation's target market is? It could be that locals make up 90% of their revenue. Who knows.... Business is business, right?

[T-Bird]

If you think that Ohio people only have to pay $200 per weekend they head down to Norris you are not good at math. I lived in Knoxville and had to hear about how bad it was for you guys when we came down there, but everyone has welcomed you to WakeNation when we could complain about the lines on the weekends from all the out of towners.

You can always do what we used to do and drive down to OWC where there are no discounts. Its only 11 hours from Knoxville. You do realize that you spend well over $40 in gas to drive the 300 miles each way. You should call Pilot to tell them to get you a weekend discount.

I am trying to get a KnoxWake / CincyWake contest together. You come up and ride cable and we come down and ride boat. More of a hang out thing than anything, but we put some bragging rights on it. Tell Moon that you want to make this happen.

[tnwakeboard]

Not saying I was never "welcomed" at Wake Nation.

BTW the $200/weekend was just to use Norris's "facilities", it is not including travel expenses, food, etc.

Listen, I know that Ohio is a big part of Norris's revenue. Norris is not exclusive, nor do we cater more to the locals than we do tourists. All I am saying is that SURELY a substantial portion of Wake Nation's customer base is tourists, like myself. If buy 5 get one free is the best deal I can get then I'll take it, no problem. Although, I feel like a reasonably priced season pass for users like myself, who can't justify $525 worth of cable in one summer but still use the facility multiple times a season would be a valuable addition to the cable pass "menu".

Like I said, I could be 100% wrong here. I just know that with a little market research and some cooperation among members of the target audience, it may be worth looking into.

Maybe a "proof of residency" anywhere outside 150 miles of Cincy (or anywhere outside of OH to be simple) could qualify you for the "Totally Rad Out Of Towner's Season Pass".

These are just ideas. Call them dumb if you want but if I'm not mistaken, idea generation is the whole point of this thread right?

P.S. I called Pilot, they said they would look into it.

[The Biz]

Nick said earlier that it was going to be for the people that head south and ride boat during the weekends.

And what about the locals that have boats, but don't have the luxury of going to Norris or Cumberland every weekend? What about the people that have baseball, soccer, or some other sport that their kids, nephews, nieces, etc. have going on during the weekend, but still want to be able to ride?

Its a business decision and I respect Pete's choice either way. My only point is that one day a week pass should be exactly that. One day a week. Not one day between Monday and Friday.

I'm going to be there either way. I'll probably be a local that does the buy 5 get one free deal though if this is only a Monday-Friday thing. As I stated before, without lights and a night permit, there is no way I'll be there Monday through Friday.

If I had a once a week pass, I would be there more. Spending more money, and exposing more people to the sport. That's the whole idea behind this right?

[tnwakeboard]

Yup.......

[zoolew]

And what about the locals that have boats, but don't have the luxury of going to Norris or Cumberland every weekend? What about the people that have baseball, soccer, or some other sport that their kids, nephews, nieces, etc. have going on during the weekend, but still want to be able to ride?

Its a business decision and I respect Pete's choice either way. My only point is that one day a week pass should be exactly that. One day a week. Not one day between Monday and Friday.

I'm going to be there either way. I'll probably be a local that does the buy 5 get one free deal though if this is only a Monday-Friday thing. As I stated before, without lights and a night permit, there is no way I'll be there Monday through Friday.

If I had a once a week pass, I would be there more. Spending more money, and exposing more people to the sport. That's the whole idea behind this right?

i 100% agree, because also what happens when the boats broken and you have to stay home for the weekend?:D im not sure how not allowing a once a week pass to be used on the weekends would save money either, unless its just to keep traffic down.

ill be buying a once a week pass anyway, but i would be waayyy more stoked if it worked for weekends too.

[Boddah1994]

Apparently it is possible...

From Wake Nation's Twitter:

wakenationcincy

By popular demand: new Season Pass option for 2010. Ride all day one weekday (Mon-Fri) each week. Only $250. Call 513-887-WAKE to purchase

[T-Bird]

Pete,

The weather says 65 and sunny on Saturday. Will the park be open this weekend? I would like to get out to the cable and so would a few Teneessee people that are coming up.

[Wake Nation]

Not this year Tyler. We are in the mide of construction and the obstacle are not in the water yet. We also need to de-winterize the cable. We'll be open in April next year.